Version 36 of Appropriate Tcl Chatroom Discussions

Updated 2004-05-06 04:18:31

appropriate: Suitable for a particular person, condition, occasion, or place; fitting.

Most importantly the Tcl'ers Chat is about Tcl. It is much like a place of business. In fact most of the people seem to use the chat from/for work. It's preferred that people not talk about personal things. Anything emotional is probably inappropriate. Most of the Internet is like this, and although it leads to a soulless feeling, it gets work done. Hence jokes are often inappropriate. Talk about Tcl. If you get upset with another person, remember that all that matters in the chat is Tcl.

If you need "friends" or want to make friends that are Tcl'ers try something else.

The chat is not a good place to discuss things like radically new improvements to Tcl/Tk. This often results in hurt feelings or flame wars. Use comp.lang.tcl for such things, because it allows a slower form of communication, and you may find more support. If you don't find support there, then do the improvements yourself and fork Tcl and/or Tk.


RS 2004-05-01: Of course the contents and "look and feel" of the chat depends directly on the persons present (and whether they are busy or relaxed). But not to forget, one feature of the Tcl chatroom is to offer quick Tcl help in very short time, which many newbies have experienced over time. I like it that sometimes very exotic topics are discussed, and occasionally the language shifts, like recently to Italian, for an hour or so. I mostly just feel at (virtual) home in the Tcl chatroom.


SS 2004-05-02: I agree with the RS vision of the chat content. I want just to add that being the chat something related to "individuals", it's better if the original author of this page signs the first part. At least we will know that this is what he want the chat is. If he will not do so, I'll remain with the doubt that maybe he considers off-topic every content that may decrease his ability to be able to get help for his paywork related problems.


LV that initial paragraph surely doesn't match my understanding of the chat - I find the chat to be a wonderful place that allows a range of discussions from personal (we've had discussions of lunch plans and tragedies) to technical (designing tkchat in real time) to nonsensical. small group (to even one on one) chats with others in public, it drowns out the ability for people to participate in the group gestalt.


SRIV When chit-chatting, I think its sufficient to have the courtesy to yield to a technical discussion without having to ban or discourage chit-chat. Its called netiquette.

CL is with RS, LV, et al., in having a more inclusive view of what's appropriate for the chat.


The wheel is spinning but the hamster is dead. I thought it was a badger.


May one become emotional about Tcl? Make jokes about upvar?


Stu I propose harsh penalties for any mention of 'libtool'.

DKF: Actually, the penalty is using libtool...


GPS: I signed that blasted paragraph at the start of this monstrous page with ".selur eht fo resuba na yb nettirW" (hint: reverse it) I guess somebody thought it was garbage and removed it. (Now in Schwarzenegger style:) I REMOVE YOU! Your text is garbage to me! Haha -- just kidding.

This all started after someone sent me a private message. This person has since sent me this email: "As I said to you in the chat, think of the chat as an oasis where problems are checked at the door. So it's nice to go to the chat and immerse oneself in a pure Tcl/computer fantasy world where outside problems don't exist and the worse we face is bug reports and eggdroppers."

Now, I won't state who it was that sent that, but I hear that he works as Batman and moonlights as a plumber in Mario Brothers. He graduated as valedictorian for his work on soft toilet seat covers.


GPS: An appropriate discussion has the following pattern:

  1. fluff example Hi or Hi Tcl'ers
  2. problem example "How do I do $X?" (Note: that you should read the documentation first.)
  3. thanks example "Thank you $nickname. I will send a money order for 5 million dollars, because of your help."

Fluffery is a fine art. For example: "How are you?" Most of the time people don't give a shit how you are. If you say "not feeling well" they will probably not talk with you (unless you have infiltrated the secret society of Tcl'ers (and trust me you don't want to know about their rituals)).

CMCc: Fluff sounds like what's known technically as Phatic Communion.

Now for the accepted forms of fluff for when you are talking with people you have known for a while:

The proper sequence of fluff is:

  1. "How are you?"
  2. "fine"

Another accepted form of fluff is:

  1. "How are you?"
  2. "hi"

The second form shows more that the person doesn't care. He/She just wants to get down to business.

It's like a form of lying. Our society is ingrained with lying. Get used to it. We live in a soulless world. It gives people the false hope that people care about them. Just look at all the Hollywood actors/actresses/liers. They have millions of fans, but when you traverse their pattern they are liers. Is it any wonder they are so good at having bad relationships. See, this is the perfect model for Tcl'ers in the chat.

Now, I've corresponded with several Tcl'ers. I've found that often Tcl'ers use no fluff. This is to encourage a 100% business relationship. It makes life fun, because remember life is about work and nothing else. Steve Landers once said "Do I live to work or work to live?" I can't speak for him, but I know for the rest of the world the answer is obvious -- WORK.

NEM I'm sure that isn't the case (I probably shouldn't admit this on a publicly visible website, but I often go days at a time doing absolutely nothing work related). However, when it comes to the Tcl'ers Chat, mostly people come there to "talk shop". If there was a way to set-up private chat channels, then perhaps people might be more inclined to chat about other subjects. Perhaps one of these days I might switch to IRC...

DKF: Hint: Use /msg to do one-on-one chat. :)

CMCc: I've never seen anyone discouraged from taking up an interesting technical discussion, or helping a newbie, merely because they were involved in a more wide-ranging topic ... it just never happens, there's no chilling effect on real tech discussion, so what're we trying to conserve here, bandwidth?

GPS: Colin, we are trying to preserve sanity. We/I don't want to scare off the natives. Reading some text is the equivalent of mental rape. Mental abuse is not funny. It's a serious medical condition that can only be treated with the proper Tcl extensions.


Stu

 "The time has come", the Tcl'er said,
 "To talk of many things:
 Of loops and tips and eval hacks,
 And fileevents and strings -
 And why the C compileth not
 And whether lists have wings."

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