How to market Tcl to make it appealing to

   * Business users
   * Programmers

Things to work on:

   * Show that it's possible to design complex applications in Tcl that don't get too hairy.

   * Show that it's possible to design serious applications that have a [GUI separate from the backend code] (no Tk spaghetti!).

   * When someone says that XYZ language is better - ask them why they think that, and how they arrived at that conclusion.  Try and determine what factors (peers, press, job pressure) are most responsible for their state of mind.  Then convince them Tcl is better:-)

Random thoughts:

   * Don't name your applications 'tk*'.  Focus on what it does, so that people will take a look even if they aren't tk fans, or have preconceptions about projects that use it.

   * Show how easy it is to build applications, and how, with a smaller amount of code, it is easier to maintain and extend.

   * Demonstrate cross-platform usability without modification. ([RS])

   * Show how much smaller similar applications are when implemented in Tcl/Tk than in other
languages. ([escargo], 18 Aug 2003)

   * Don't get engineers to try to figure out marketing. :-)

[davidw] - well if you don't figure it out, someone else will and will blow you out of the water.  Look at PHP and Python, for instance.  You have two ways of looking at it: they created better systems faster than Tcl, or they had better marketing.  No one even mentions Tcl anymore.

[MSW]: Show how many professional tools use tcl as their scripting plugin making it possible to write applications which either run in a standalone tclsh/wish or be loaded directly onto tools from which you can gain additional information for your own application.

----
[LV] Two thoughts.  In the past, there have been these discussions, with some people saying ''why bother'' and others saying ''tcl will die if not properly marketed''.  There is one primary reason that a technical person might care about tcl being properly marketed - I've personally seen cases where Tcl would be a nice fit for solving a problem, but it was rejected because it wasn't a ''real'' programming language.

On the other hand, arguments about marketing tcl to get more programmers, etc. are less interesting to me, as I tend to look at things from a technical point of view, and there are more than enough people asking me questions about tcl right now... I'm not looking to increase my work load.

----
[davidw] I think at this point Tcl can be considered a "mature" product.  A long way from dead, used by people for many things, stable, useful, well tested.

But it's going downhill.  It is losing market share.  The reason you should care about that is called "network effects", meaning that the more people use something the more valuable it is (like a telephone network, no good if you can't talk to anyone with it).  This is so for programming languages because if things go well, those users become contributors and create things that in turn, you can use.  Libraries, documentation, tutorials, and other materials that make your life as a programmer easier.  When something is well known, it's of course also easier to sell it or sell skills based on it.  You can make a living as a Java or VB consultant, selling the ability to write code in those languages, but you can't do that with Tcl.  You *must* sell the ability to get some particular task done, which is doable in Tcl, but it narrows the field some...

Of course, were that the only factor, no one would use anything but visual basic, but it's not an argument to be brushed aside completely, either.

That's why "marketing" matters.

I'm not really sure how to fix things though, and am beginning to think the answer lies in taking some of the good stuff from Tcl and running with it elsewhere, because the Tcl "brand" seems to have too much baggage attached to it.

----
[category community]