[Siqsuruq] 2017-9-8: Hello everyone, before I start talking trash about Tcl let me say few words. I love this language, I really do ... I have been using it since 2005. I have TDK License. I have learned a lot from this wiki. All my code is written in Tcl/Tk. But now I feel like Tcl is almost dead. And this makes me really sad. ActiveState has no more support for TDK. There is no more centralized repositories for Tcl packages, no more teacup no more teapot. When I try to tell people about Tcl they look at me like I'm crazy person. First impression about programming language is always a web page about it, and this is this wiki.This wiki is really really ugly. Tcl is almost dead because of marketing, support and availability. Can we just join all together and fix it? There is web designers here? Designers to give this wiki some shine? What I need to do to create centralized repository for Tcl packages? I have small virtual server I can sucrifice for this cause. I want everybody be able to upload their packages on it. I dont know about you guys, may be you all are brainiacs here. And like all brainiacs you dont care about image of the language, but I think its important. And we all need to do something about it. ---- [bll] 2017-9-8 Google Trends. I don't know how accurate this is, but it doesn't look good. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&q=%2Fm%2F07fw2 (Tcl programming language) Not totally dead, this is a good sign... https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&q=Tkinter (tkinter) Another source (stackoverflow, tcl and tkinter tags): https://insights.stackoverflow.com/trends?tags=tcl%2Ctkinter You will find that there are a large group of people who have no interest in changing the wiki. They spout phrases like "spirit of the wiki", which if I translate correctly means "do it my way". It would actually be easier to start a new wiki, but you will need to collect a group of people who are willing to contribute to it -- this is difficult, as many people don't want to keep two different wiki's up to date. Fragmentation isn't good, but fighting these these high-inertia people seems worse in this case. A repository of Tcl packages would be great, but first I think a more standardized way of installing would be useful. e.g. Python (which I know nothing about) has a set of directories that are searched for modules, and their 'easyinstall' and 'pip' programs install into these directories. If the Tcl modules could be installed in this manner, this would be much easier. I think, right now, if I installed a few Tcl modules to use on Linux, I would probably have to add several different paths to `::auto_path`. This is not portable nor very manageable. Once this module/package tree/system is in place, then the major modules can be repackaged to install into the standard directories, and a repository/installation system can be built. I also have a server available that can be used for wiki/forum/repository, whatever Tcl/Tk related.