This page has been created to publish a lamentable chat discussion where three users have been offending each other. This is not a good new for Tcl chat networks.
Users <Colin>, <Zarutian> and sergiol (after his nick was <serg> an after <sergio2> because <admin> was banned him from the IRC network) were offending each as quoted below.
They call parasite, swaer mothers of each other, etc.
BTW it appears a user with a nick sergio666 in this conversation that is not sergiol.
14:16 <dkf> New TIP: #274 14:20 <suchenwi> 274 makes sense 14:20 <dgp> heh, suchenwi beat me to the edit 14:20 <suchenwi> 14:20 <dgp> gonna add the actual result. 14:21 <dgp> Tcl doesn't return "approximate" answers. 14:21 <dkf> Not in 8.5 14:21 <dkf> Now, if it had been 2.0**3**4, that would be different 14:21 <suchenwi> Ah - so expr acos(-1) gives precise Pi ? 16:52 * <Zarutian> hasnt got an-non-memmory-leaky browser, so would someone be so kind to summerize what tip #274 is about? 14:22 <dkf> Zarutian: Changing the associativity of the exponentiation operator 14:22 <Zarutian> dkf: why? 16:52 * <ijchain> dkf know his browser has memleaks, and doesn't care 14:23 <dkf> Read the TIP to find out 14:23 <patthoyts> discussion on tcl-core recently. 14:24 <patthoyts> also - changes tcl to be like perl,ruby,python and others. 14:25 <Zarutian> more agol-60 like in other words? 14:26 sergiol may be doing a TIP to add the logical XOR was useful too? 14:27 <dkf> Tcl already has logical xor 14:28 <dkf> (!$x) != (!$y) 14:28 sergiol yes but that is not self evident 14:28 sergiol "Don't make me think" - Steve Krug 14:28 <suchenwi> 14:28 sergiol anybody has read this book on usabilty? 14:29 <suchenwi> If the inputs are Booean (0 or 1), != is sufficient for logival xor. 14:29 <suchenwi> logical 14:29 <suchenwi> Boolean 14:29 sergiol suchenwi: i got you 14:30 <dkf> RS: The text is good, the example is only so-so 14:31 <suchenwi> Just one I had lying round - didn't want a too complicated, yet evident example. What would you propose? 14:34 <dkf> Not sure. I'm not very alert today 16:52 * <ijchain> schlenk hates incompetent PHP and SQL coders that code SQL and PHP like the code C, with bitfields and lots of binary operations inside SELECTs..., and i have to understand this crap -> head nearing explosion, even debugging tcllib ASN.1 package is better... 14:35 <Cameron> Sympathies. 14:36 <Cameron> Yes, Richard, I'm willing to talk about "precise pi". I'd *hope* that Tcl gives that--well, that Tcl passes through the underlying library ... 14:36 <suchenwi> string length $PrecisePi == Inf 14:36 <dkf> "Precise pi" is an interesting concept 14:37 sergiol does that exist "precise pi"? 14:37 <Zarutian> shclenk: big words that 14:37 <schlenk> Its just brilliant 50+ multi table queries just to get some basic document facts for a document management system, the designer of this should be shot (but is now teaching students how to write C and C++ as head of a CS lab). 14:37 <dkf> Actually, it's a concept that's defined by "how many digits do you want?" 14:37 <suchenwi> It does exist, but can't never be printed out in full 14:37 <patthoyts> Clearly its: π 14:37 <suchenwi> 14:38 sergiol it is the most aberrational concept on maths 14:38 <schlenk> Zarutian: you were interested in ASN.1 a while ago, why? 16:52 * <ijchain> miguel missed the pâté discussion ... "How come your goose liver pâté is so Cheap?" "Well, I trick a bit: it is 50% horse liver" "Mmhhh ... still, should be dearer. How do prepare it?" "Easy: chop one goose liver and one horse liver" 14:38 <suchenwi> Just irrational - we have many of those, e.g. sqrt(2) is another 14:38 <Cameron> Ah, yes; precise pi only existed post-Unicode. 14:39 <dkf> RS: Joking aside, the concept of whether it exists or not was a matter of some philosophical/mathematical discussion a few centuries ago 14:39 <Cameron> The next calendar should have its origin at the adoption of Unicode; we can be in year 8 now. 16:52 * <ijchain> dkf thinks miguel's comment reminds him of chicken-and-horse pie: 50-50, 1 chicken, 1 horse. 14:39 <suchenwi> Yes, irrational numbers were seen by some as a kind of witchcraft 14:39 <miguel> go some more centuries back, and even sqrt(2) was revolutionary ... 14:40 <Cameron> Folks *do* realize that most numbers are irrational, right? 14:40 <Gerry> Here we use liverwurst and braunschweiger interchangeably--is the latter term used in Germany too (possibly with corrected spelling)? 14:40 sergiol who's the guy that proofed the perimeter/diameter=3.14... in a circle? anybody has ever heard of him? 14:40 <dkf> Most numbers are undescribable 14:40 <patthoyts> Another fun irrational is Φ iirc. 14:40 <Zarutian> dkf: tell the accountants that 14:40 <suchenwi> Well, as there are Inf primes, and sqrt(x) is irrational for prime ix, we have Inf irrationals. 14:40 <patthoyts> golden number or something. 14:41 sergiol ? 14:41 sergiol yes it is the golden number 14:41 <miguel> want irrational? Indiana apparently legislated that pi=4 sometime in the XIXth century 14:41 <suchenwi> Gerry: Braunschweig is a city. They may make a special kind of sausage there, but the name rings no bell for me. 14:41 <dkf> There's a countable infinity of describably numbers, but an uncountable infinity of numbers 14:41 <Cameron> 'Fact, most numbers are *transcendental*. 14:41 <schlenk> Gerry: Braunschweig is a city in northern germany, so Braunschweiger would be correct, but i haven't heard it for liverwurst, but that may be just me. 14:41 <dkf> so there must be an uncountable infinity of undescribable numbers. QED. 14:41 <Gerry> The limit of the ratio of Fibonacci numbers 14:42 <Cameron> Miguel propagates distorted history, I testify as a proud Hoosier. 14:42 <miguel> Chaitin's omega is interesting, if you are into numbers that will make your head spin 14:43 sergiol the greek architecture tends to have the proportions between height and width defined by the golden number 14:43 <dgp> I second Cameron's correction 14:43 <Zarutian> sergiol: golden ratio is synnymus with golden number, no? 14:43 <miguel> what? They stipulated pi=3 instead? 14:43 <Gerry> I have heard the Indiana story too, though 14:43 sergiol i will create a new und 14:44 <dgp> what do folks think about having Tcl_GetDoubleFromObj recognize such strings? 14:44 <Cameron> In English, most often, "golden ratio", or "golden mean"--"golden number" much less often. 14:44 <miguel> http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_341.html 14:44 <Gerry> http://www.agecon.purdue.edu/crd/Localgov/Second%20Level%20pages/indiana_pi_bill.htm 14:44 <miguel> "Although the attempt to legislate pi was ultimately unsuccessful, it did come pretty close." 14:45 sergiol Zarutian: in greek architecture works is usual that Height/Width=golden number 14:45 <Gerry> The Indiana Pi Bill, 1897 14:45 <ijchain> <Gerry> 14:45 <Gerry> This is Indiana House Bill No. 246, 1897, known as the Indiana pi bill. Towards the end of section 2 it says plainly that "The ratio of the diameter and circumference is as five-fourths to four," which means pi is 3.2. The section goes on the criticize (ungenerously, I'd say) past values of pi as "wholly wanting and misleading." 14:45 <Cameron> http://www.agecon.purdue.edu/crd/Localgov/Second%20Level%20pages/Indiana_Pi_Story.htm 14:45 <Cameron> http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_341.html 14:46 <dkf> If they'd gone for 22/7 they'd have been fairly close 14:46 <suchenwi> 377/120 14:47 <Cameron> Indiana actually considered pi on several occasions (I don't know whether the references I gave explain that). The best thing about the one that went farthest 14:47 sergiol it is so undescribable that it does nt have a name or a value 14:48 <Cameron> is that it was reported out of the Committee on Swamp Lands. You people have no idea how important drainage is (well, maybe our Finnish colleagues ...). 14:48 <suchenwi> 45 % expr acos(-1) 14:48 <suchenwi> 3.14159292035 14:48 <suchenwi> % 355/113. 14:48 <suchenwi> 3.14159265359 14:48 <dgp> so scripts like set rad [expr {$deg*π/180} would work 14:49 <Cameron> Pick-up line at the Tcl Conference: "So, what's your favorite rational approximant to pi?" 14:49 <suchenwi> I like the cyclic nature of 355/113 14:49 sergiol can i use tabbo owrds now? 14:50 sergiol can i use tabboo words now? 14:50 <suchenwi> There is a reason why they are taboo - considered byd style here 14:50 <Cameron> If the taboo were good enough, you couldn't even say "taboo". 14:51 sergiol may be pissa (dick in portuguese) 14:51 <dkf> depends on whether they are taboo or tabu 14:52 <Gerry> Sergiol--grow up 14:52 sergiol pi and the male genitalia have some similarities in shape 16:52 * <ijchain> dkf notes that l*bt**l is banned though 14:52 <Zarutian> suchenwi: how long is the cycle of 355/113 14:52 sergiol sorry for the impoliteness 14:52 <dkf> All rationals are cyclic 14:53 <dkf> (or have finite expansions) 14:53 <Gerry> 000000 is a cycle 14:53 sergiol dkf: or inifinitically periodic 14:54 <Gerry> as is 999999 14:54 sergiol 4,6(37) is a rational number too 14:54 sergiol , decimal separator 14:55 sergiol (37) the part that repeats infinitically 14:56 <dkf> All rationals have finite numerator and denominator 14:56 <Gerry> Hard to argue with that, dkf 14:56 <dkf> ergo, must either have finite expansions or inifinite expansions with a finite cycle after a finite number of digits 16:52 * <ijchain> dgp proposals must be really bad lately 14:56 <Colin> But I didn't have any of the salmon mousse. 14:57 <dkf> proof is left as a trivial exercise 14:57 <dgp> Who's Hal David? 14:57 sergiol dkf: true since even the infinitically periodic can be converted in fractions of integers, but i dn't remember the process to do that 14:57 <Gerry> Lyricist 16:52 * <ijchain> dgp takes "Obscure Python lines" for $100 14:58 <Colin> Hal David doesn't have any 's's in his name. 14:59 <neon|> is there a way how to check if the data for image create photo are the right type for it? 14:59 <kbk> if {catch [image create photo...]} {...} ? [14:59 <Gerry> If the cycle is n digits, the process involves multiplying by 10^n and subtracting 14:59 sergiol i height catches 14:59 <neon|> ha.. i still forgot on catch.. thanks kbk 14:59 <Gerry> hate? 15:00 <dkf> h8 15:00 <Colin> 37/99 = .3737373737.... 15:00 sergiol yes 16:52 * <ijchain> kbk comes in, sees considerable silliness, perhaps will be cheered up (just read Ed Felten's latest diatribe; ) 15:00 sergiol i hate catches 15:01 <Zarutian> sergiol: but not throws? 16:52 * <ijchain> Cameron regards voting-in-America as nearly dead. 15:01 sergiol i like more the if else approach 15:01 <Colin> It's been outsourced. 16:52 * <ijchain> kbk likes the old Elizabethan catches. "He who would an alehouse keep/ must have three things in store/ A chamber with a featherbed / A fireplace and a hey nonny nonny/ hey nonny nonny hey nonny nonnino" 15:02 sergiol Cameron: George W. Bush will loose and i will be happy 15:02 <Colin> GW Bush can't run again. 15:02 <Gerry> x = .3737... 100*x = 37.3737... 99*x = 37 15:02 <dgp> yet 15:02 <Colin> Ah, good point. 15:02 <Colin> Perhaps he won't need to. There may be an emergency preventing it. 16:52 * <ijchain> kbk wouldn't it past the current Administration to discover a terrorist plot to blow up polling places. 15:03 <Zarutian> kbk: dont give'm ideas 15:03 <Colin> Diebold bombs anyway. 15:03 <dgp> don't think that would matter. 15:03 <dgp> his term is time-limited no matter what 15:03 <Colin> Lincoln was widely praised for not suspending elections in the civil war. 15:03 <Colin> And GW is no Lincoln. 15:04 <suchenwi> sergiol: catch is one of the great blessings of Tcl. Compare it with C++ exceptions, or C's segmentation fault/bus error. 15:04 <Cameron> RS writes wisely. 15:05 <miguel> bus errors typically provoque many casualties 15:05 <Colin> I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror like his passengers. 15:05 <suchenwi> 16:52 * <ijchain> kbk remembers several ladies that he bussed when he shouldn't have. (Fortunately, never married any of *them*) 15:06 sergiol catch encourages bad programming 15:06 <Cameron> The alehouse opens early on Friday. 15:06 <Cameron> Incorrect, Sergio. 15:06 <patthoyts> rubbish 15:06 <Colin> Oh boy. Wrong. Again. 15:07 <Gerry> catch allows good programming 16:52 * <ijchain> miguel wonders if he is about to learn some new meaning of "to bus somebody"? Slang is like pi, infinite and always full of surprises ... 15:07 <Cameron> *Untested* catch is a symptom of naive programming. 15:07 <Cameron> Miguel, Kevin wrote a different word. 15:07 sergiol because i saw colleagues of me using it for bad-working things 15:07 <Colin> miguel, yes, but does it contain all possible expressions of a salacious nature? 15:08 sergiol in C++ 15:08 <Colin> sergiol, yeah, well, not doing what people who don't know what they're doing isn't as good as doing what people who do know what they're doing do. 16:52 * <ijchain> Colin inserts another do in there. 15:08 <Zarutian> Colin: dont 16:52 * <ijchain> patthoyts re-reads x4 16:52 * <ijchain> miguel found it ... 15:08 <Colin> not doing what people who don't know what they're doing do isn't as good as doing what people who do know what they're doing do. 15:09 <patthoyts> yeah. needs another do 16:52 * <ijchain> kbk wrote the word, "buss". http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=buss&x=0&y=0 15:09 <rfoxmich> Someone's been reading Wirth too much ...he disliked exceptions. 15:09 <Colin> wirthless. 15:09 <kbk> patthoyts - FWIW, I use -family {Bitstream Charter} -size -15 15:09 <rfoxmich> anyone can misuse a language feature. 15:10 <patthoyts> kbk: ok 16:52 * <ijchain> miguel wonders if the thousand monkeys shouldn't be replaced by the binary expansion of pi: wait long enough, and King Lear will appear in unicode 15:10 <Colin> miguel, that's the question, and the answer is nobody knows. 15:10 <kbk> That's on Linux; on Windows, I use Georgia. I have Georgia on the Linux box too, but it comes out way too bold. 15:11 <patthoyts> minus 15. 15:11 <patthoyts> Defaults on windows are fine. 15:11 <Cameron> sergiol is correct for holding the thought that some constructs are hazardous; not all code is of equal merit. However, Tcl's catch is certainly a mistaken target for his criticism. 15:11 <miguel> I know that nobody knows - so you can't prove me wrong. Tra-la-lala 15:11 <Colin> nobody knows if pi is 'dense', in that its expansion will contain all possible sequences of any given length. 15:11 <patthoyts> It's just I've been using ubuntu and tk+xft and the defaults for menus and gui elements are too big with the gtklook setings 15:11 <kbk> pat - yeah, I've never found a way to make screen metrics work right, and gave up a long, long time ago. 16:52 * <ijchain> Colin thinks that's cool. 15:12 <Colin> no, all possible sequences. no length. 16:52 * <ijchain> dkf notes that it appears that pi's expansion is maximally random 15:13 <miguel> otoh, omega would do fine (IIUC). Only nobody would know what the heck you're talking about 15:13 <dkf> i.e. that it is impossible to guess, given an arbitrary digit, what the next digit is 15:13 <Colin> Personally, I hope it does contain them all, because then it would contain a couple of episodes of The Office that I missed. 16:52 * <ijchain> dkf probably mis-explained that 16:52 * <ijchain> kbk needs to reboot 'cuz Generous Employer does Patch Tuesday on Fridays lately. Back in a bit. 15:15 sergiol pi sucks 15:15 sergiol nobody has proofed this relation between diameter and perimiter 15:16 <Colin> I've never met anyone who has an opinion about pi. 15:16 <Colin> Never hope to. 15:16 sergiol Colin: i am not ruminating 15:16 <Colin> sergiol, what do you think about e? 15:17 <dkf> pi is defined to be that ratio 15:17 <dkf> So it is impossible (or perhaps trivial) to prove: it's an axiom 15:17 sergiol is nt maths the science that wants every thing proofed ? where is that proof? 15:17 <Colin> it's not even, it's a name. 15:17 <dkf> It *has* been proved that pi is transcendental 15:17 <Colin> sergiol, prove you're named sergiol. 15:18 <dkf> You can look up the proof on wikipedia 15:18 sergiol is what? 15:18 sergiol from what planet has it come? 15:19 <dkf> The rest of us are from Planet Earth 15:20 <dkf> We'd say "we come in peace, take us to your leader" except we'd be lying 15:20 <de> It isn't not only a irrational number, it is also not an algebraic number. That non-algebraic numbers are called transcendental. 15:20 <Colin> I want to say so *many* things. 15:20 <dkf> Earthmen tend to not come in pieace, and we defnitely don't want to see anyone's leader 15:21 <suchenwi> 15:21 <dkf> Got enough of those already 15:22 <Colin> I think the conversation where I called Sergiol's mother a whore was more educational and edifying. 15:22 <patthoyts> Enough already. 15:23 <Zarutian> Colin: got her prices? (tasteless I know) 15:23 sergiol is this a chat for what_? 15:23 <Colin> Well, FFS, Pat. This is banal beyond ... I don't even know what it's beyond. 15:24 sergiol for swearing my mother? 15:25 <Colin> belief, certainly. 15:25 sergiol nobody has ever proofed that exist a direct propotionality betwen diameter & perimeter of a circle and that is a reaon to offend my mother? 15:26 <Gerry> Fat Freddie Shepherd? 15:26 <admin> been itching to see if 'kick' really works in the jabber room :> 15:26 <miguel> banal beyond belief, *basically* - not certainly. You get B- in aliteration 15:27 sergiol Don't people know what is civilizated conversation in Australia or in Iceland? 15:27 <Gerry> Facial Feminization Surgery? 16:52 * <ijchain> miguel wonders if sergio might be hinting at non-euclidean geometry ... stops immediately, unreasonably unlikely 15:28 <Zarutian> miguel: well we Icelanders have still some viking vulgarity in us 15:29 <Colin> I'm unwilling to accept any definiton of 'civilisation' in which pi can't be the name of the ratio between a circle's circumference and its diameter. 15:29 <Colin> I thought civilisation moved past that, approximately 1000 years ago. 15:30 <Colin> More. 15:30 sergiol or your mothers were fucking so many time with strangers that does'nt had time to speak without swearing the family of other guys? 15:30 <Colin> 16:52 * <ijchain> dkf interprets pie to be the ratio between crust and apple filling 15:30 <suchenwi> 15:31 sergiol i had to be uncivilizated in that sentence, but it is the only adequate response 15:31 <admin> sergiol: bye 15:31 <miguel> heh: define circle, radius and circumference first. Then do precise measurements on the surface of a sphere (intrinsic non-euclidean geometry). Then see that the ratio depends on the radius ... always less than pi, first grows, then recedes to zero, then grows again ... 15:32 sergiol BTW, Colin: Einstein rejected the Newton's Laws 15:32 <Colin> miguel, I don't think you have to measure. 15:32 <miguel> sergio has to measure, not me. It should take a while ... 15:32 <Colin> Ohhhhh! 15:33 <suchenwi> I thought a polygon with increasing number of sides can be used to approximate a circle 15:33 <miguel> it can: from outside, and from inside. Gives you nice bounds 15:33 <Gerry> On a sphere, shouldn't "pi" decrease with radius until it goes through zero??? 15:34 sergiol suchenwi: you are saying i am right 15:34 <suchenwi> Inside is easier - just n equilateral triangles with r as two sides 16:52 * <ijchain> kbk prefers definitions of π that don't depend on Euclidean geometry; π = 4 - 4/3 + 4/5 - 4/7 ... is one such. 15:34 <Colin> miguel, is there any kind of space where the ratio between a geodesic and its radius is rational? 15:34 <kbk> Colin: The Manhattan metric? 15:34 <Gerry> The smallest circle is closest to being on a plane, gets less so with increasing radius 15:34 sergiol the polygon approximates a circle, is not the same thing 15:35 <Colin> Oh, I guess ... some kind of space which's square. 15:35 <dkf> There are metrics where spheres are octahedra 15:35 <Gerry> So you must be wrong, miguel 15:36 sergiol there are some circles if you measure diameter and perimeter, the division of measures will give 2,9.... 15:37 <miguel> not "through" zero, as distance is defined to be non-negative - so both radius and circumference are non-negative. Now, if you define "radius" as minimal distance, there is a maximal radius (equal to half the length of the equator). 15:37 <dkf> spheres have a single radius, and are defined to be the set of points which are equidistant from some other nominated point ("the middle") in 3-space. 15:37 <miguel> So I agree I must be wrong ... I was mis-defining "radius" as "the length of the particular geodesic I chose, irrespective of it being a minimal length path or not" 15:38 <dkf> a classical euclidean sphere requires that the metric be the square root of the sum of the squares of the perpendicular axial distances 15:38 <miguel> donal: geometry *on* the sphere, not on its embedding 3-space. 15:39 <dkf> Oh, spherical geometry 15:39 <Gerry> Spherical Flatland 15:39 <kbk> "And whlle we're on it, did you know the world's a cube?" "But that would mean that we'd all be sliding toward the centres of the faces!" "So, are you ready to roll?" "Zip.... CFASH!" 15:40 <kbk> CRASH 15:41 <dkf> kbk: depends on the metric; if the sphere is a cube, gravity must also act perpendicularly to the faces 15:41 <dkf> since otherwise there is a "unversal" metric to detect cube-ness 15:41 <Colin> transfinite banality!!! That's what it's beyond!!! 15:42 <miguel> let us do some topological non-metric gravitation theory ... 15:42 <Colin> was beyond. 15:42 <Colin> sorry, carry on. 15:42 <suchenwi> non-metric: in feet and inches? 15:43 <dkf> to call this all "deep" is to miss just how complicated it is 15:43 <sergio666> is this the tcl chat? 15:43 <Zarutian> suchenwi: no in fathoms and yards 15:43 <suchenwi> This is the UDP-in-core chat 15:43 <dkf> UDP-in-TCT chat 15:43 <Colin> 15:44 sergiol i don't know why this persons like Zarutian and Colin are swearing my mother and people seeing me as the bad guy 16:52 * <ijchain> miguel checks ... indeed, it is friday 15:45 sergiol BTW, sergio666 is NOT me 15:45 <dkf> been working, but full of silliness 15:45 <kbk> ok, seems to be back - did anyone else just have network strangeness? 15:45 <patthoyts> just you 15:46 <dkf> (better than the security-and-workflow discussion going on here ) 15:46 <suchenwi> The signal/noise ratio is a bit low today 16:52 * <ijchain> kbk wanders off in Hilbert space to get some . Oh, wait, that's Dilbert space. 15:47 <suchenwi> 15:47 sergiol what means a underlined nick in tkchat? 15:48 sergiol (right panel) 15:48 <Afrix> Hilbert, hilly billy version 15:49 <Afrix> *hill 15:51 sergiol seems it means a link to a user ith some info 16:52 * <ijchain> kbk wrinkles nose. eeeeewww. Someone filled the machine with Starbucks beans, 15:52 <serg> i don't know why this persons like Zarutian and Colin are swearing my mother and people seeing me as the bad guy 15:52 <serg> i am sergiol 15:53 <Colin> No, really? 15:53 <kbk> serg - perhpas out of some vague sense of "turnabout is fair play;" your own language is pretty foul at times. 15:54 sergiol kbk:? what? 15:54 <kbk> Otherwise, well, please, everybody, don't feed the trolls. 15:55 sergiol what is trroll , turnabout, an foul? 16:52 * <ijchain> steveo notes that it is *obviously* Friday ... 15:56 <Zarutian> kbk: why not? they are nearly extinct 15:56 <Colin> ?walsh 15:57 sergiol kbk: do you feel well when somebody offens your mother? 15:57 <miguel> /. "Vista to Create 50,000 Jobs in Europe". Amazing, and all this time they were telling us that computers are here to make our life easier ... 15:57 sergiol offends* 15:57 sergiol miguel:the comments to that in slashdot are very comic 15:58 <Colin> Sorry, I was searching for kbk's exposition of the derivation of 'welsh' to show to a friend named 'walsh' 15:58 <Afrix> heh, vista support base 15:58 <Colin> As to why, Sergiol, you don't have the concentration span, and I don't have the patience. 15:59 <miguel> yes: next we'll have some wheel-barrow maker arguing for the banishment of trucks. It will create 50M new jobs! 15:59 <Afrix> maybe there going to open vista stores in europe 16:00 sergiol Virus , Infections , Spyware, TRojans and Ad-aware? 16:00 <Colin> Well, every time a new security exploit comes along it costs billions. I guess that money has to pay *someone*, and perhaps it will be equivalent to 50K man-years in Europe alone over Vista's market life. 16:52 * <ijchain> Colin finds that plausible. 16:02 <Afrix> then you can have a local representive of mircosoft to physically beat the living crap out so you can feel better ^^ 16:02 <serg> admin: are you there 16:52 * <ijchain> suchenwi cd ~ 16:03 <serg> VISTA=Virus , Infections , Spyware, TRojans and Ad-aware? 16:05 <serg> sergio666 is not me, i am sergiol 16:07 <sergio2> i discovered what is a troll 16:07 <sergio2> in wkipedia 16:08 <Colin> Sergiol, I apologise for taking the piss out of you. Your mother is provably not a whore, and it was wrong and mischeivous of me to suggest otherwise. Now please just leave it alone, or open a sub-window and I'll explain to you precisely why I did say it. 16:09 <timjr> Hi 16:09 <sergio2> Colin: if you did offend her in public, i will not open a sub-window for that 16:10 <timjr> is there a builtin command that can create a dict from an array? 16:10 <sergio2> explain that in public too, for people to see why you did that 16:10 <Colin> timjr, you can just treat any array get as a dict. 16:10 <Colin> Sergiol, nobody cares. 16:10 <sergio2> i discovered what is a troll in Wikipedia. 16:11 <Colin> or you could do a dict create {expand}[array get] ... I tend to do that, don't know if it's the best way. [16:11 <Colin> Also, Sergiol, nobody cares. 16:11 <sergio2> a trollis a person that behaves exactly like you in IRC Colin 16:12 <sergio2> so i will forget your conversations for ever 16:12 <timjr> Colin: too cool, thanks! 16:12 <Colin> Enough, or I will taunt you a second time. 16:12 <sergio2> don't they teach "Civism" in Australian schools? 16:13 <Colin> Sergiol, she is not a whore. 16:13 <sergio2> Colin: don't take me as a dumbass 16:14 <sergio2> remember you called me parasite? 16:14 <sergio2> i am not an idiot 16:14 <Colin> Sergiol, if you wish to discuss this tripe with me, please take it offline. 16:14 <sergio2> no 16:15 <Colin> I'm happy enough to talk you into a shallow ditch, if that's what you want, but I see no point in spamming everyone else with it. 16:15 <sergio2> you called me ugly names IN PUBLIC, so you should explain that IN PUBLIC 16:52 * <ijchain> kbk will be happy to /noisy both Colin and sergio2 and let them go at it for a short while. 16:15 <Colin> If I were to explain it in public, I predict you would be even more offended. 16:15 <steveo> come on folks, this is NOT a PHP forum 16:16 <sergio2> seems to me even kbk thinks you are a troll 16:52 * <ijchain> dkf notes that the result of array get might actually be a dict already 16:16 <Colin> dkf, is it? 16:16 <dkf> Not 100% sure and doesn't matter 16:16 <kbk> ahh... blessed silence 16:16 <Colin> it's dict-conformant. 16:16 <sergio2> i have benn at PHP chats and persons were more civilizated 16:19 <sergio2> been* 16:20 <sergio2> kbk? 16:25 <sergio2> kbk: i think i will follow your recommendation: don't give any attention to persons like Colin 16:27 <Colin> She's more of an enthusiastic amateur.