This page has been created to publish a lamentable chat discussion where three users have been offending each other. This is not a good new for Tcl chat networks.
Users <Colin>, <Zarutian> and sergiol (after his nick was <serg> an after <sergio2> because <admin> was banned him from the IRC network) were offending each as quoted below.
They call parasite, swaer mothers of each other, etc.
BTW it appears a user with a nick sergio666 in this conversation that is not sergiol.
[14:16] <dkf> New TIP: #274
[14:20] <suchenwi> 274 makes sense
[14:20] <dgp> heh, suchenwi beat me to the edit
[14:20] <suchenwi>
[14:20] <dgp> gonna add the actual result.
[14:21] <dgp> Tcl doesn't return "approximate" answers.
[14:21] <dkf> Not in 8.5
[14:21] <dkf> Now, if it had been 2.0**3**4, that would be different
[14:21] <suchenwi> Ah - so expr acos(-1) gives precise Pi ?
[16:52] * <Zarutian> hasnt got an-non-memmory-leaky browser, so would someone be so kind to summerize what tip #274 is about?
[14:22] <dkf> Zarutian: Changing the associativity of the exponentiation operator
[14:22] <Zarutian> dkf: why?
[16:52] * <ijchain> dkf know his browser has memleaks, and doesn't care
[14:23] <dkf> Read the TIP to find out
[14:23] <patthoyts> discussion on tcl-core recently.
[14:24] <patthoyts> also - changes tcl to be like perl,ruby,python and others.
[14:25] <Zarutian> more agol-60 like in other words?
[14:26] sergiol may be doing a TIP to add the logical XOR was useful too?
[14:27] <dkf> Tcl already has logical xor
[14:28] <dkf> (!$x) != (!$y)
[14:28] sergiol yes but that is not self evident
[14:28] sergiol "Don't make me think" - Steve Krug
[14:28] <suchenwi>
[14:28] sergiol anybody has read this book on usabilty?
[14:29] <suchenwi> If the inputs are Booean (0 or 1), != is sufficient for logival xor.
[14:29] <suchenwi> logical
[14:29] <suchenwi> Boolean
[14:29] sergiol suchenwi: i got you
[14:30] <dkf> RS: The text is good, the example is only so-so
[14:31] <suchenwi> Just one I had lying round - didn't want a too complicated, yet evident example. What would you propose?
[14:34] <dkf> Not sure. I'm not very alert today
[16:52] * <ijchain> schlenk hates incompetent PHP and SQL coders that code SQL and PHP like the code C, with bitfields and lots of binary operations inside SELECTs..., and i have to understand this crap -> head nearing explosion, even debugging tcllib ASN.1 package is better...
[14:35] <Cameron> Sympathies.
[14:36] <Cameron> Yes, Richard, I'm willing to talk about "precise pi". I'd *hope* that Tcl gives that--well, that Tcl passes through the underlying library ...
[14:36] <suchenwi> [string length $PrecisePi] == Inf
[14:36] <dkf> "Precise pi" is an interesting concept
[14:37] sergiol does that exist "precise pi"?
[14:37] <Zarutian> shclenk: big words that
[14:37] <schlenk> Its just brilliant 50+ multi table queries just to get some basic document facts for a document management system, the designer of this should be shot (but is now teaching students how to write C and C++ as head of a CS lab).
[14:37] <dkf> Actually, it's a concept that's defined by "how many digits do you want?"
[14:37] <suchenwi> It does exist, but can't never be printed out in full
[14:37] <patthoyts> Clearly its: π
[14:37] <suchenwi>
[14:38] sergiol it is the most aberrational concept on maths
[14:38] <schlenk> Zarutian: you were interested in ASN.1 a while ago, why?
[16:52] * <ijchain> miguel missed the pâté discussion ... "How come your goose liver pâté is so Cheap?" "Well, I trick a bit: it is 50% horse liver" "Mmhhh ... still, should be dearer. How do prepare it?" "Easy: chop one goose liver and one horse liver"
[14:38] <suchenwi> Just irrational - we have many of those, e.g. sqrt(2) is another
[14:38] <Cameron> Ah, yes; precise pi only existed post-Unicode.
[14:39] <dkf> RS: Joking aside, the concept of whether it exists or not was a matter of some philosophical/mathematical discussion a few centuries ago
[14:39] <Cameron> The next calendar should have its origin at the adoption of Unicode; we can be in year 8 now.
[16:52] * <ijchain> dkf thinks miguel's comment reminds him of chicken-and-horse pie: 50-50, 1 chicken, 1 horse.
[14:39] <suchenwi> Yes, irrational numbers were seen by some as a kind of witchcraft
[14:39] <miguel> go some more centuries back, and even sqrt(2) was revolutionary ...
[14:40] <Cameron> Folks *do* realize that most numbers are irrational, right?
[14:40] <Gerry> Here we use liverwurst and braunschweiger interchangeably--is the latter term used in Germany too (possibly with corrected spelling)?
[14:40] sergiol who's the guy that proofed the perimeter/diameter=3.14... in a circle? anybody has ever heard of him?
[14:40] <dkf> Most numbers are undescribable
[14:40] <patthoyts> Another fun irrational is Φ iirc.
[14:40] <Zarutian> dkf: tell the accountants that
[14:40] <suchenwi> Well, as there are Inf primes, and sqrt(x) is irrational for prime ix, we have Inf irrationals.
[14:40] <patthoyts> golden number or something.
[14:41] sergiol ?
[14:41] sergiol yes it is the golden number
[14:41] <miguel> want irrational? Indiana apparently legislated that pi=4 sometime in the XIXth century
[14:41] <suchenwi> Gerry: Braunschweig is a city. They may make a special kind of sausage there, but the name rings no bell for me.
[14:41] <dkf> There's a countable infinity of describably numbers, but an uncountable infinity of numbers
[14:41] <Cameron> 'Fact, most numbers are *transcendental*.
[14:41] <schlenk> Gerry: Braunschweig is a city in northern germany, so Braunschweiger would be correct, but i haven't heard it for liverwurst, but that may be just me.
[14:41] <dkf> so there must be an uncountable infinity of undescribable numbers. QED.
[14:41] <Gerry> The limit of the ratio of Fibonacci numbers
[14:42] <Cameron> Miguel propagates distorted history, I testify as a proud Hoosier.
[14:42] <miguel> Chaitin's omega is interesting, if you are into numbers that will make your head spin
[14:43] sergiol the greek architecture tends to have the proportions between height and width defined by the golden number
[14:43] <dgp> I second Cameron's correction
[14:43] <Zarutian> sergiol: golden ratio is synnymus with golden number, no?
[14:43] <miguel> what? They stipulated pi=3 instead?
[14:43] <Gerry> I have heard the Indiana story too, though
[14:43] sergiol i will create a new und
[14:44] <dgp> what do folks think about having Tcl_GetDoubleFromObj recognize such strings?
[14:44] <Cameron> In English, most often, "golden ratio", or "golden mean"--"golden number" much less often.
[14:44] <miguel> http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_341.html
[14:44] <Gerry> http://www.agecon.purdue.edu/crd/Localgov/Second%20Level%20pages/indiana_pi_bill.htm
[14:44] <miguel> "Although the attempt to legislate pi was ultimately unsuccessful, it did come pretty close."
[14:45] sergiol Zarutian: in greek architecture works is usual that Height/Width=golden number
[14:45] <Gerry> The Indiana Pi Bill, 1897
[14:45] <ijchain> <Gerry>
[14:45] <Gerry> This is Indiana House Bill No. 246, 1897, known as the Indiana pi bill. Towards the end of section 2 it says plainly that "The ratio of the diameter and circumference is as five-fourths to four," which means pi is 3.2. The section goes on the criticize (ungenerously, I'd say) past values of pi as "wholly wanting and misleading."
[14:45] <Cameron> http://www.agecon.purdue.edu/crd/Localgov/Second%20Level%20pages/Indiana_Pi_Story.htm
[14:45] <Cameron> http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_341.html
[14:46] <dkf> If they'd gone for 22/7 they'd have been fairly close
[14:46] <suchenwi> 377/120
[14:47] <Cameron> Indiana actually considered pi on several occasions (I don't know whether the references I gave explain that). The best thing about the one that went farthest
[14:47] sergiol it is so undescribable that it does nt have a name or a value
[14:48] <Cameron> is that it was reported out of the Committee on Swamp Lands. You people have no idea how important drainage is (well, maybe our Finnish colleagues ...).
[14:48] <suchenwi> 45 % expr acos(-1)
[14:48] <suchenwi> 3.14159292035
[14:48] <suchenwi> % 355/113.
[14:48] <suchenwi> 3.14159265359
[14:48] <dgp> so scripts like [set rad [expr {$deg*π/180}] would work
[14:49] <Cameron> Pick-up line at the Tcl Conference: "So, what's your favorite rational approximant to pi?"
[14:49] <suchenwi> I like the cyclic nature of 355/113
[14:49] sergiol can i use tabbo owrds now?
[14:50] sergiol can i use tabboo words now?
[14:50] <suchenwi> There is a reason why they are taboo - considered byd style here
[14:50] <Cameron> If the taboo were good enough, you couldn't even say "taboo".
[14:51] sergiol may be pissa (dick in portuguese)
[14:51] <dkf> depends on whether they are taboo or tabu
[14:52] <Gerry> Sergiol--grow up
[14:52] sergiol pi and the male genitalia have some similarities in shape
[16:52] * <ijchain> dkf notes that l*bt**l is banned though
[14:52] <Zarutian> suchenwi: how long is the cycle of 355/113
[14:52] sergiol sorry for the impoliteness
[14:52] <dkf> All rationals are cyclic
[14:53] <dkf> (or have finite expansions)
[14:53] <Gerry> 000000 is a cycle
[14:53] sergiol dkf: or inifinitically periodic
[14:54] <Gerry> as is 999999
[14:54] sergiol 4,6(37) is a rational number too
[14:54] sergiol , decimal separator
[14:55] sergiol (37) the part that repeats infinitically
[14:56] <dkf> All rationals have finite numerator and denominator
[14:56] <Gerry> Hard to argue with that, dkf
[14:56] <dkf> ergo, must either have finite expansions or inifinite expansions with a finite cycle after a finite number of digits
[16:52] * <ijchain> dgp proposals must be really bad lately
[14:56] <Colin> But I didn't have any of the salmon mousse.
[14:57] <dkf> proof is left as a trivial exercise
[14:57] <dgp> Who's Hal David?
[14:57] sergiol dkf: true since even the infinitically periodic can be converted in fractions of integers, but i dn't remember the process to do that
[14:57] <Gerry> Lyricist
[16:52] * <ijchain> dgp takes "Obscure Python lines" for $100
[14:58] <Colin> Hal David doesn't have any 's's in his name.
[14:59] <neon|> is there a way how to check if the data for image create photo are the right type for it?
[14:59] <kbk> if { [catch [image create photo...]]} {...} ?
[14:59] <Gerry> If the cycle is n digits, the process involves multiplying by 10^n and subtracting
[14:59] sergiol i height catches
[14:59] <neon|> ha.. i still forgot on catch.. thanks kbk
[14:59] <Gerry> hate?
[15:00] <dkf> h8
[15:00] <Colin> 37/99 = .3737373737....
[15:00] sergiol yes
[16:52] * <ijchain> kbk comes in, sees considerable silliness, perhaps will be cheered up (just read Ed Felten's latest diatribe; )
[15:00] sergiol i hate catches
[15:01] <Zarutian> sergiol: but not throws?
[16:52] * <ijchain> Cameron regards voting-in-America as nearly dead.
[15:01] sergiol i like more the if else approach
[15:01] <Colin> It's been outsourced.
[16:52] * <ijchain> kbk likes the old Elizabethan catches. "He who would an alehouse keep/ must have three things in store/ A chamber with a featherbed / A fireplace and a hey nonny nonny/ hey nonny nonny hey nonny nonnino"
[15:02] sergiol Cameron: George W. Bush will loose and i will be happy
[15:02] <Colin> GW Bush can't run again.
[15:02] <Gerry> x = .3737... 100*x = 37.3737... 99*x = 37
[15:02] <dgp> yet
[15:02] <Colin> Ah, good point.
[15:02] <Colin> Perhaps he won't need to. There may be an emergency preventing it.
[16:52] * <ijchain> kbk wouldn't it past the current Administration to discover a terrorist plot to blow up polling places.
[15:03] <Zarutian> kbk: dont give'm ideas
[15:03] <Colin> Diebold bombs anyway.
[15:03] <dgp> don't think that would matter.
[15:03] <dgp> his term is time-limited no matter what
[15:03] <Colin> Lincoln was widely praised for not suspending elections in the civil war.
[15:03] <Colin> And GW is no Lincoln.
[15:04] <suchenwi> sergiol: catch is one of the great blessings of Tcl. Compare it with C++ exceptions, or C's segmentation fault/bus error.
[15:04] <Cameron> RS writes wisely.
[15:05] <miguel> bus errors typically provoque many casualties
[15:05] <Colin> I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
[15:05] <suchenwi>
[16:52] * <ijchain> kbk remembers several ladies that he bussed when he shouldn't have. (Fortunately, never married any of *them*)
[15:06] sergiol catch encourages bad programming
[15:06] <Cameron> The alehouse opens early on Friday.
[15:06] <Cameron> Incorrect, Sergio.
[15:06] <patthoyts> rubbish
[15:06] <Colin> Oh boy. Wrong. Again.
[15:07] <Gerry> catch allows good programming
[16:52] * <ijchain> miguel wonders if he is about to learn some new meaning of "to bus somebody"? Slang is like pi, infinite and always full of surprises ...
[15:07] <Cameron> *Untested* catch is a symptom of naive programming.
[15:07] <Cameron> Miguel, Kevin wrote a different word.
[15:07] sergiol because i saw colleagues of me using it for bad-working things
[15:07] <Colin> miguel, yes, but does it contain all possible expressions of a salacious nature?
[15:08] sergiol in C++
[15:08] <Colin> sergiol, yeah, well, not doing what people who don't know what they're doing isn't as good as doing what people who do know what they're doing do.
[16:52] * <ijchain> Colin inserts another do in there.
[15:08] <Zarutian> Colin: dont
[16:52] * <ijchain> patthoyts re-reads x4
[16:52] * <ijchain> miguel found it ...
[15:08] <Colin> not doing what people who don't know what they're doing do isn't as good as doing what people who do know what they're doing do.
[15:09] <patthoyts> yeah. needs another do
[16:52] * <ijchain> kbk wrote the word, "buss". http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=buss&x=0&y=0
[15:09] <rfoxmich> Someone's been reading Wirth too much ...he disliked exceptions.
[15:09] <Colin> wirthless.
[15:09] <kbk> patthoyts - FWIW, I use -family {Bitstream Charter} -size -15
[15:09] <rfoxmich> anyone can misuse a language feature.
[15:10] <patthoyts> kbk: ok
[16:52] * <ijchain> miguel wonders if the thousand monkeys shouldn't be replaced by the binary expansion of pi: wait long enough, and King Lear will appear in unicode
[15:10] <Colin> miguel, that's the question, and the answer is nobody knows.
[15:10] <kbk> That's on Linux; on Windows, I use Georgia. I have Georgia on the Linux box too, but it comes out way too bold.
[15:11] <patthoyts> minus 15.
[15:11] <patthoyts> Defaults on windows are fine.
[15:11] <Cameron> sergiol is correct for holding the thought that some constructs are hazardous; not all code is of equal merit. However, Tcl's [catch] is certainly a mistaken target for his criticism.
[15:11] <miguel> I know that nobody knows - so you can't prove me wrong. Tra-la-lala
[15:11] <Colin> nobody knows if pi is 'dense', in that its expansion will contain all possible sequences of any given length.
[15:11] <patthoyts> It's just I've been using ubuntu and tk+xft and the defaults for menus and gui elements are too big with the gtklook setings
[15:11] <kbk> pat - yeah, I've never found a way to make screen metrics work right, and gave up a long, long time ago.
[16:52] * <ijchain> Colin thinks that's cool.
[15:12] <Colin> no, all possible sequences. no length.
[16:52] * <ijchain> dkf notes that it appears that pi's expansion is maximally random
[15:13] <miguel> otoh, omega would do fine (IIUC). Only nobody would know what the heck you're talking about
[15:13] <dkf> i.e. that it is impossible to guess, given an arbitrary digit, what the next digit is
[15:13] <Colin> Personally, I hope it does contain them all, because then it would contain a couple of episodes of The Office that I missed.
[16:52] * <ijchain> dkf probably mis-explained that
[16:52] * <ijchain> kbk needs to reboot 'cuz Generous Employer does Patch Tuesday on Fridays lately. Back in a bit.
[15:15] sergiol pi sucks
[15:15] sergiol nobody has proofed this relation between diameter and perimiter
[15:16] <Colin> I've never met anyone who has an opinion about pi.
[15:16] <Colin> Never hope to.
[15:16] sergiol Colin: i am not ruminating
[15:16] <Colin> sergiol, what do you think about e?
[15:17] <dkf> pi is defined to be that ratio
[15:17] <dkf> So it is impossible (or perhaps trivial) to prove: it's an axiom
[15:17] sergiol is nt maths the science that wants every thing proofed ? where is that proof?
[15:17] <Colin> it's not even, it's a name.
[15:17] <dkf> It *has* been proved that pi is transcendental
[15:17] <Colin> sergiol, prove you're named sergiol.
[15:18] <dkf> You can look up the proof on wikipedia
[15:18] sergiol is what?
[15:18] sergiol from what planet has it come?
[15:19] <dkf> The rest of us are from Planet Earth
[15:20] <dkf> We'd say "we come in peace, take us to your leader" except we'd be lying
[15:20] <de> It isn't not only a irrational number, it is also not an algebraic number. That non-algebraic numbers are called transcendental.
[15:20] <Colin> I want to say so *many* things.
[15:20] <dkf> Earthmen tend to not come in pieace, and we defnitely don't want to see anyone's leader
[15:21] <suchenwi>
[15:21] <dkf> Got enough of those already
[15:22] <Colin> I think the conversation where I called Sergiol's mother a whore was more educational and edifying.
[15:22] <patthoyts> Enough already.
[15:23] <Zarutian> Colin: got her prices? (tasteless I know)
[15:23] sergiol is this a chat for what_?
[15:23] <Colin> Well, FFS, Pat. This is banal beyond ... I don't even know what it's beyond.
[15:24] sergiol for swearing my mother?
[15:25] <Colin> belief, certainly.
[15:25] sergiol nobody has ever proofed that exist a direct propotionality betwen diameter & perimeter of a circle and that is a reaon to offend my mother?
[15:26] <Gerry> Fat Freddie Shepherd?
[15:26] <admin> been itching to see if 'kick' really works in the jabber room :>
[15:26] <miguel> banal beyond belief, *basically* - not certainly. You get B- in aliteration
[15:27] sergiol Don't people know what is civilizated conversation in Australia or in Iceland?
[15:27] <Gerry> Facial Feminization Surgery?
[16:52] * <ijchain> miguel wonders if sergio might be hinting at non-euclidean geometry ... stops immediately, unreasonably unlikely
[15:28] <Zarutian> miguel: well we Icelanders have still some viking vulgarity in us
[15:29] <Colin> I'm unwilling to accept any definiton of 'civilisation' in which pi can't be the name of the ratio between a circle's circumference and its diameter.
[15:29] <Colin> I thought civilisation moved past that, approximately 1000 years ago.
[15:30] <Colin> More.
[15:30] sergiol or your mothers were fucking so many time with strangers that does'nt had time to speak without swearing the family of other guys?
[15:30] <Colin>
[16:52] * <ijchain> dkf interprets pie to be the ratio between crust and apple filling
[15:30] <suchenwi>
[15:31] sergiol i had to be uncivilizated in that sentence, but it is the only adequate response
[15:31] <admin> sergiol: bye
[15:31] <miguel> heh: define circle, radius and circumference first. Then do precise measurements on the surface of a sphere (intrinsic non-euclidean geometry). Then see that the ratio depends on the radius ... always less than pi, first grows, then recedes to zero, then grows again ...
[15:32] sergiol BTW, Colin: Einstein rejected the Newton's Laws
[15:32] <Colin> miguel, I don't think you have to measure.
[15:32] <miguel> sergio has to measure, not me. It should take a while ...
[15:32] <Colin> Ohhhhh!
[15:33] <suchenwi> I thought a polygon with increasing number of sides can be used to approximate a circle
[15:33] <miguel> it can: from outside, and from inside. Gives you nice bounds
[15:33] <Gerry> On a sphere, shouldn't "pi" decrease with radius until it goes through zero???
[15:34] sergiol suchenwi: you are saying i am right
[15:34] <suchenwi> Inside is easier - just n equilateral triangles with r as two sides
[16:52] * <ijchain> kbk prefers definitions of π that don't depend on Euclidean geometry; π = 4 - 4/3 + 4/5 - 4/7 ... is one such.
[15:34] <Colin> miguel, is there any kind of space where the ratio between a geodesic and its radius is rational?
[15:34] <kbk> Colin: The Manhattan metric?
[15:34] <Gerry> The smallest circle is closest to being on a plane, gets less so with increasing radius
[15:34] sergiol the polygon approximates a circle, is not the same thing
[15:35] <Colin> Oh, I guess ... some kind of space which's square.
[15:35] <dkf> There are metrics where spheres are octahedra
[15:35] <Gerry> So you must be wrong, miguel
[15:36] sergiol there are some circles if you measure diameter and perimeter, the division of measures will give 2,9....
[15:37] <miguel> not "through" zero, as distance is defined to be non-negative - so both radius and circumference are non-negative. Now, if you define "radius" as minimal distance, there is a maximal radius (equal to half the length of the equator).
[15:37] <dkf> spheres have a single radius, and are defined to be the set of points which are equidistant from some other nominated point ("the middle") in 3-space.
[15:37] <miguel> So I agree I must be wrong ... I was mis-defining "radius" as "the length of the particular geodesic I chose, irrespective of it being a minimal length path or not"
[15:38] <dkf> a classical euclidean sphere requires that the metric be the square root of the sum of the squares of the perpendicular axial distances
[15:38] <miguel> donal: geometry *on* the sphere, not on its embedding 3-space.
[15:39] <dkf> Oh, spherical geometry
[15:39] <Gerry> Spherical Flatland
[15:39] <kbk> "And whlle we're on it, did you know the world's a cube?" "But that would mean that we'd all be sliding toward the centres of the faces!" "So, are you ready to roll?" "Zip.... CFASH!"
[15:40] <kbk> CRASH
[15:41] <dkf> kbk: depends on the metric; if the sphere is a cube, gravity must also act perpendicularly to the faces
[15:41] <dkf> since otherwise there is a "unversal" metric to detect cube-ness
[15:41] <Colin> transfinite banality!!! That's what it's beyond!!!
[15:42] <miguel> let us do some topological non-metric gravitation theory ...
[15:42] <Colin> was beyond.
[15:42] <Colin> sorry, carry on.
[15:42] <suchenwi> non-metric: in feet and inches?
[15:43] <dkf> to call this all "deep" is to miss just how complicated it is
[15:43] <sergio666> is this the tcl chat?
[15:43] <Zarutian> suchenwi: no in fathoms and yards
[15:43] <suchenwi> This is the UDP-in-core chat
[15:43] <dkf> UDP-in-TCT chat
[15:43] <Colin>
[15:44] sergiol i don't know why this persons like Zarutian and Colin are swearing my mother and people seeing me as the bad guy
[16:52] * <ijchain> miguel checks ... indeed, it is friday
[15:45] sergiol BTW, sergio666 is NOT me
[15:45] <dkf> been working, but full of silliness
[15:45] <kbk> ok, seems to be back - did anyone else just have network strangeness?
[15:45] <patthoyts> just you
[15:46] <dkf> (better than the security-and-workflow discussion going on here )
[15:46] <suchenwi> The signal/noise ratio is a bit low today
[16:52] * <ijchain> kbk wanders off in Hilbert space to get some . Oh, wait, that's Dilbert space.
[15:47] <suchenwi>
[15:47] sergiol what means a underlined nick in tkchat?
[15:48] sergiol (right panel)
[15:48] <Afrix> Hilbert, hilly billy version
[15:49] <Afrix> *hill
[15:51] sergiol seems it means a link to a user ith some info
[16:52] * <ijchain> kbk wrinkles nose. eeeeewww. Someone filled the machine with Starbucks beans,
[15:52] <serg> i don't know why this persons like Zarutian and Colin are swearing my mother and people seeing me as the bad guy
[15:52] <serg> i am sergiol
[15:53] <Colin> No, really?
[15:53] <kbk> serg - perhpas out of some vague sense of "turnabout is fair play;" your own language is pretty foul at times.
[15:54] sergiol kbk:? what?
[15:54] <kbk> Otherwise, well, please, everybody, don't feed the trolls.
[15:55] sergiol what is trroll , turnabout, an foul?
[16:52] * <ijchain> steveo notes that it is *obviously* Friday ...
[15:56] <Zarutian> kbk: why not? they are nearly extinct
[15:56] <Colin> ?walsh
[15:57] sergiol kbk: do you feel well when somebody offens your mother?
[15:57] <miguel> /. "Vista to Create 50,000 Jobs in Europe". Amazing, and all this time they were telling us that computers are here to make our life easier ...
[15:57] sergiol offends*
[15:57] sergiol miguel:the comments to that in slashdot are very comic
[15:58] <Colin> Sorry, I was searching for kbk's exposition of the derivation of 'welsh' to show to a friend named 'walsh'
[15:58] <Afrix> heh, vista support base
[15:58] <Colin> As to why, Sergiol, you don't have the concentration span, and I don't have the patience.
[15:59] <miguel> yes: next we'll have some wheel-barrow maker arguing for the banishment of trucks. It will create 50M new jobs!
[15:59] <Afrix> maybe there going to open vista stores in europe
[16:00] sergiol Virus , Infections , Spyware, TRojans and Ad-aware?
[16:00] <Colin> Well, every time a new security exploit comes along it costs billions. I guess that money has to pay *someone*, and perhaps it will be equivalent to 50K man-years in Europe alone over Vista's market life.
[16:52] * <ijchain> Colin finds that plausible.
[16:02] <Afrix> then you can have a local representive of mircosoft to physically beat the living crap out so you can feel better ^^
[16:02] <serg> admin: are you there
[16:52] * <ijchain> suchenwi cd ~
[16:03] <serg> VISTA=Virus , Infections , Spyware, TRojans and Ad-aware?
[16:05] <serg> sergio666 is not me, i am sergiol
[16:07] <sergio2> i discovered what is a troll
[16:07] <sergio2> in wkipedia
[16:08] <Colin> Sergiol, I apologise for taking the piss out of you. Your mother is provably not a whore, and it was wrong and mischeivous of me to suggest otherwise. Now please just leave it alone, or open a sub-window and I'll explain to you precisely why I did say it.
[16:09] <timjr> Hi
[16:09] <sergio2> Colin: if you did offend her in public, i will not open a sub-window for that
[16:10] <timjr> is there a builtin command that can create a dict from an array?
[16:10] <sergio2> explain that in public too, for people to see why you did that
[16:10] <Colin> timjr, you can just treat any [array get] as a dict.
[16:10] <Colin> Sergiol, nobody cares.
[16:10] <sergio2> i discovered what is a troll in Wikipedia.
[16:11] <Colin> or you could do a [dict create {expand} [array get]] ... I tend to do that, don't know if it's the best way.
[16:11] <Colin> Also, Sergiol, nobody cares.
[16:11] <sergio2> a trollis a person that behaves exactly like you in IRC Colin
[16:12] <sergio2> so i will forget your conversations for ever
[16:12] <timjr> Colin: too cool, thanks!
[16:12] <Colin> Enough, or I will taunt you a second time.
[16:12] <sergio2> don't they teach "Civism" in Australian schools?
[16:13] <Colin> Sergiol, she is not a whore.
[16:13] <sergio2> Colin: don't take me as a dumbass
[16:14] <sergio2> remember you called me parasite?
[16:14] <sergio2> i am not an idiot
[16:14] <Colin> Sergiol, if you wish to discuss this tripe with me, please take it offline.
[16:14] <sergio2> no
[16:15] <Colin> I'm happy enough to talk you into a shallow ditch, if that's what you want, but I see no point in spamming everyone else with it.
[16:15] <sergio2> you called me ugly names IN PUBLIC, so you should explain that IN PUBLIC
[16:52] * <ijchain> kbk will be happy to /noisy both Colin and sergio2 and let them go at it for a short while.
[16:15] <Colin> If I were to explain it in public, I predict you would be even more offended.
[16:15] <steveo> come on folks, this is NOT a PHP forum
[16:16] <sergio2> seems to me even kbk thinks you are a troll
[16:52] * <ijchain> dkf notes that the result of [array get] might actually be a dict already
[16:16] <Colin> dkf, is it?
[16:16] <dkf> Not 100% sure and doesn't matter
[16:16] <kbk> ahh... blessed silence
[16:16] <Colin> it's dict-conformant.
[16:16] <sergio2> i have benn at PHP chats and persons were more civilizated
[16:19] <sergio2> been*
[16:20] <sergio2> kbk?
[16:25] <sergio2> kbk: i think i will follow your recommendation: don't give any attention to persons like Colin
[16:27] <Colin> She's more of an enthusiastic amateur.